Cost being average market price
Difficulty of the mob with everything included - People required, repop length, length of kill, eq damage per average kill to tank, largest burst (max amount of damage the mob can deal within 2 consecutive rounds), potions per kill, number and difficulty of puzzles in front of the mob, other mobs that must be killed before the mob, transfer programs (everything from: can you reconnect during the fight if you spam commands accidentally, can you quit before the mob).
Yes.. there's ALOT that goes into how I determine the difficulty of a mob.
Anyhow, I'd like to compare these 3 rings.
I'll make them more generic and leave out names to illustrate my problem with the current difficulty/cost levels.
Ring1
Usable by 2 aligns (no class restrictions)
12ac
50hp, 25mana
2 stats
4hr/dr
VS
Ring2
Usable by 1 align(wearable by 5 classes)
12ac
50hp, 45 mana
2 stats
3hr, 4dr
VS
Ring3
Usable by 1 align (wearable by 1 class)
15 ac
50hp, 60 mana
3 stats
0hr, 3dr
-1 save
What do I see here when comparing these rings?
Ring 1 vs 2 vs 3
Restrictions: none +2 aligns vs 5 class +1 align vs 1+1 align.
AC: 1=2=3+3ac. Thats.. barely an improvement for so many restrictions.
HP: 1=2=3. One of the biggest factors in determining if a ring is usable .. and NO changes.
Mana: 1 =2-20mp. 2=3-15mp. very slight upgrades in the mana department.
Stats: 1=2. 3= 1+1 stat. a significant improvement between 2 and 3.
HR/DR: 1 vs 2: loss of 1hr (significant). 2v3 loss of all hr AND 1dr.
Lets look at the glory values for the rings individually (the glory cost if the rings were originally blank and only had align/class restrictions.
Ring 1:
12ac = 1200 glory
50hp, 25mana = 50x10, 25x5 = 500+125= 625glory
2 stats = 75x2 =150 glory
4hr/dr = 4x100+4x150 = 1000 glory
Total: 2975
VS
Ring2
Usable by 1 align(wearable by 5 classes)
12ac = 1200 glory
50hp, 45 mana = 50x10+45x5=725
2 stats = 75x2 = 150
3hr, 4dr = 3x100+4x150 = 900
Total: 1200+725+150+900=3475
VS
Ring3
Usable by 1 align (wearable by 1 class)
15 ac = 1500 glory
50hp, 60 mana = 50x10+60x5 = 800 glory
3 stats = 75x3=225glory
0hr, 3dr = 3x150 = 450 glory
-1 save = 100 glory
Total: 1500+800+225+450+100=3075
So lets compare the actual rings themselves now after we have had a "feel" for the "value" and the weight immortals have placed on each stat in terms of glory.
Frequent readers will quickly have noticed: Ring 1 is Set's ring of power from Set, Lord of Darkness one of the easiest newbie runs in the game.
Ring 2 is ring of the ancient gods: aka danny ring from one of the harder mobs in the game with some of the highest burst damage in the game, LOTS of mobs in front of him, as well as two mazes and two transes.
Ring 3 is Origin: the top- end game devout cleric ring. (barring race restricted rings)
Set ring costs all of 10m (if that), Danny rings run 70-80m, Origin is pretty stable at 300m.
The prices certainly reflect the difficulty of the runs and how hard it is to attain. What it doesn't explain is why the glory totals are no where near reflective of this. Not to mention the restrictiveness of the rings 2+3 are so much tighter than 1. If gold value was used to reflect the ring's stats rather than difficulty in obtaining, if you used danny ring's values as a baseline: 3500 (rounded) for 75m, Set's ring of power SHOULD be worth 64m and Origin should be worth 66m. A FAR cry from what the actual costs are. As you can see, statwise, they are VERY similar but difficulty-wise, they are worlds apart.
This is my proposed Tiering system for avatar level items:
Tier 1: No restrictions at ALL. No class restrictions. No race restrictions. No align restrictions. NOTHING.
Base item: usable by all, slight upgrade from closest usable ring that does not involve a puzzle or difficult fight.
Current examples: Ring of the King's Navy
Tier 2: An item usable by each genre or multiple genres that at completion, there are enough tier 2 items that encompass EVERY genre. But no align restrictions. So we have basic rings eg. mage+cleric ring, warrior ring, druid ring, thief/vamp ring. The current ones we have: Shade ring, ring of wizardry.
Base item: Tier 1 item + 100-300 glory value in additional stats. eg. 5 hp, 1dr, 1stat, 10 mana more than Tier 1 item.
Tier 3: Class + race +align restrictions.
Base item: Tier 2 item + 300-500 glory value in additional stats. +200 glory per align restriction, + 100 glory per class restricted +50 glory per race not usable by.
Of course, the actual numbers need to be tweaked for actual usage but I think it would give alot more balance to existing items and fairly new items which are VERY under-statted for all the restrictions that have been put in.
Of course, mob and puzzle difficulties would have to be reworked as well to compensate for the new system. But realistically, builders and immortals really need to work on balancing things out. It's very frustrating when you spend loads of time and effort to figure out new stuff, only to get some barely decent item that's only wearable by some weird race, class, align combination which no one really uses but the difficulty is through the roof.
A minor edit to included 2 items requested
Object 'dark ring of the Hunter and the Hunted' is infused with your magic... It is a level 50 armor, weight 5. Locations it can be worn: finger Special properties: dark evil Classes allowed: Ranger Alignments allowed: evil This armor has a gold value of 1546711. Armor class is 13 of 13. Affects damage roll by 4. Affects track by -50. Affects hp by 65. Affects armor class by 10. Affects resistant:acid by 10%. Affects strength by 1.
13x100=1300
4x150=600
65x10=650
-10x100=-1000
1x400=400
1x100=100
Total: 2050
Way worse than a Set ring.
Object 'band of the Behemoth' is infused with your magic... It is a level 50 armor, weight 2. Locations it can be worn: finger Special properties: glow magic Classes allowed: Fathomer Genres allowed: fighter shaman Alignments allowed: evil neutral This armor has a gold value of 750000. Armor class is 14 of 14. Affects damage roll by 4. Affects hp by 60. Affects mana by 20. Affects save vs poison by -2. Affects resistant:acid by 1%.
14x100=1400
4x150=600
60x10=600
20x5=100
2x100=200
40x1=40
Total: 2940
Slightly worse than a set ring.
Kinda insulting huh?
4 comments:
Would you analyze these rings?
http://rodpedia.poromenos.org/wiki/Dark_ring_of_the_Hunter_and_the_Hunted
http://rodpedia.poromenos.org/wiki/Band_of_the_Behemoth
Why ask me? I gave those 3 rings as a sample as to a basic methodology to compare them so you can compare other things out there for yourself but I'll edit the main post to add these 2.
Well, I was just curious to see what you thought of these rings and wow, they're terrible considering how much harder they are to get compared to Set ring.
Doesn't help that itemisation is so bad, the risks and rewards totally out of whack and almost everything new added to the game is inferior and isn't even a sidegrade most of the time.
Well yeah, they are typically a downgrade unless it's on a class that doesn't need the stats+mana on the set ring, and doesn't mind the losses on the other rings. e.g hunter and hunted isn't BAD... but it totally screws your track score and prevents you from tanking melee mobs effectively. The added restriction that it's a EVIL ranger only basically narrows it down to worthless.
Behemoth band is slightly better in it's restrictions but it basically gives nothing any of those classes needs other than 10 extra hp over a set ring.
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